In the second episode of OUTCAST, Rashida Renée teaches us about the inner workings of the fashion industry, the value of trans tastemakers, and mannequin-phobia.

You can follow Rashida on instagram: rashidareneeward + twitter: @fuckrashida

You can support our favourite tastemaker by donating to her paypal: paypal.me/rrenee and cash.me/$rreneeward

Rashida Renée, by Inez + Vinoodh

Rashida Renée//Elizabeth Smart

Rashida Renée//Elizabeth Smart

Rashida Renée

Rashida Renée


Zanab: [00:00:14] So one of the questions that we got a lot is regarding your fears. Are there any fears you would be comfortable sharing with us and are there any fears you confront on a daily basis?

Rashida: [00:00:27] I just want to be left alone. I want to be able  to like navigate the world without people being mean to me, or trying me, or trying to get at me. I'm just trying to live a  really peaceful life. 

I'm not really with the confrontation and stuff. I don't know. I feel like everything bad to me that could happen has already happened if that makes sense. It can't really get any worse than this. Other than death--not to be dark, but, you know.

That would suck, like getting murdered would suck. Being stabbed or dying in an accident or you know dying in a plane crash. 


Zanab: So before we started recording the podcast we were talking a little bit about your wardrobe and you had mentioned that your wardrobe was just filled with these really kind of wild eccentric pieces and they're just a regular component of your wardrobe. So I guess my question is, how did you develop such an immense and interesting love for fashion? Like what brought you to this point?


Rashida: My mom and my mom I'm my on these to work in a salon together. Just go and buy you know a lot of beauty salon Time magazines everywhere. So we're always just look at like you know not moms who are always there every day especially a small child. And it was in the 90s so I would say the representation like especially for like black women were darker it was much better than it is now. 


[00:01:54] And my mom my mom was like really conscious conscious of that she really wanted us to like really love ourselves. I love our blackness and love the way it looked. Really Like appreciate black women. And it was just always around me. My mom was fat mama's fat. My auntie was she was like 5 11 and she was very dark skinned and she had like long white a long red light. So where it was she was like Bob was she passed away in 2007 by almost everything she was. But my mom and my mom were like models and they were really fashion forward. 


[00:02:31] And I think this is like my first memories were around 93 and that's when everyone was like where Clarabell. There was a lot of tokers is a lot of like you know Stevie Nicks kind of moments whatever she was and they would just dress like that. Meet Joe witness and that's a really conservative insular kind of black religious community and they would get a lot of shit just for like dressing the way they dress. 


[00:02:53] They would call the world the light of the world and they just didn't care. 


[00:02:58] They were it was just they were just filed to it mostly come from them and like they in the ending task war and they were like bigger women they always go the extra mile to find. Look for them and learn how to dress. 


[00:03:12] And like this just really like with it just like they were amazing and it really shouldn't be short like her like props really cropped hair. 


[00:03:23] She was just like really like as always and while most kids are going out at my mom straight Ebony always Ebony has had like fashions every night. Fashion section in the magazines like the 50s and ms. And use this thing in the past where. Where she started this I don't know he did or in the 60s. I can't remember. And she will go to the talk show in Paris and that action by lots of twar to bring back to the rest. So she will like and then you get a bunch of models and you will go on tour like and I'd like to bring back and show them all. Fast. Like Paris or Europe or whatever. And they did this point sixty seven things nine. 


[00:04:05] I mean I always think of every facet there and they also will just post them to just continually post pictures of black bottles so that's where became you familiar with like for like me on the back of the head. You know all those girls like dad like Debra Shaun White Black good to see all the models like so like when they came into fashion it was always very white black. It wasn't like you know like the fashion to be Esquire to this period like a trend of a guess. Did you like fashion. And when I first started it's always aware that it was the Navy. So they always have like no fashion television on it at all like the style we play as a pension. All the fashion programs that you see on TV looking at how stylists and you property them later with. Or low or with the wind as it was so I I was always aware of it. And then I would say I don't get into it more myself. 


[00:05:03] Like I struck out bangs myself like I was like last fall you know always always be like or actually be into music and you know make your move and boxy round and see it and apply and all these groups are out. And I always wanted to know what everyone was wearing and like you know contrary to popular belief like now all of is like were by Tina. And remember they were just like wild stuff. A lot of the times like this if you jump in jump at it and they said like see I didn't know what to see at that time. 


[00:05:38] As for like Christian Dior I just thought it was for Sly. So I didn't know what all these girls were what his music was wearing. 


[00:05:44] So were they really like not even like buy by the time like in the late 90s for 80000 who really really really really really the fashion director and they were putting out like some really amazing and a Tauriel impacted like fashion wise. 


[00:05:59] Now let's really Kafirs you know in great like high fashion models. A lot of black models at the time we're getting older we have to look bigger like the case with the vibe like it's great advertorials always look at the leader like look at all the credits and see what everyone was wearing and like really designers so they would figure out like OK so she's wearing this and they're not like that not. 


[00:06:21] And they were right. They all used to run like they were like the as each of them like. Actually I think you know Dolce Gabbana and Versace and you are they should run those ads and by which you know are urbanising run those sites that I was looking at you know the advertising looking at the clothes in editorials and I was like OK this is for. 


[00:06:38] So then I would just go and do my own research and do all of that. And I would like look up everything. See what everyone was wearing and all these designers were and I was like and I was conscious the back. I knew who was like not to be like that girl I've always been into this is always something I've been into I've always been aware. But in terms of being obsessive about it and really knowing like like really going married like really figure out what everybody was doing. Yeah. Yeah I'm rambling. I'm like on it. 


[00:07:10] So I look up everything on my mind. By the time I got to the flu I was just like really annoyed. About like just like you know routine. And they were blocked. They blocked my space in school so I was like that they passed around the block. And backbend style that. 


[00:07:27] Had all of those 3:41 found our same thing. They're all a lot of the editorials and Lalich that I was raised with the people who were with me were covering the Arpels. And designer Biles they have all the collection going back from like it was like I think 99 to like at that point it was like like 2005. We have all of that one they look at all the shows and back again back to all the names that the models were walking on pictures you got to know walking the models were old all the time. Who was that. What helps. So I learned a lot. Me Back then I was thinking like my encyclopedia of school. 


[00:08:06] They have a lot of fashion on margravine for that reason. I would just look at people that you know I was with who you know know like the rings of the mine which is hilarious. 


[00:08:15] Now the mom is now going off to the ball be so conservative like that. So I associate Australia into living with Barbara Bush the First Lady Barbara Bush because she was always very different and she like white house correspondents dinner and I thought that was really funny anyway. 


[00:08:34] So I learned a lot beyond that. And I just it just never stopped. I guess it never stopped. But I was never going to like the fashion stuff that like the radio or I would say like people who are followers of fashion were into the designers. I always always like the Sunday fun stuff especially when I was in high school. So like what was that 0 3 0 4 0 5 0 6. That was like the White River the heat quite precisely peak boasting about it. I was think Milan like fashion week when everyone was really doing it and you know I'm not like a huge fan of fan but like Congi was turning out some real stuff back then and it was all about that Tom DeLay. Tom DeLay Gucci for a minute there too. That was all like another always saying always say about like Mike was Archie Misaki porn it's like simulated sex and like Gucci is like real sex it looks like what real sex looks like. It was very amazing amazing really I think I responded to back then was like ya got this little steer right. 


[00:09:38] Here because he's like he's like a nerd in like brothers like nerds or always be into nerd. 


[00:09:43] My brother is you know when you're younger you're to watch things like things your way. So I was like Star Wars and do all the animation stuff. So watch all of that together. And that was another big influence that my dad was more concerned about like whatever it was way beyond that was always a ball. It's always an issue. It's always Dolce and Gabbana. She was always that kind of stuff. You know what is that. 


[00:10:06] Julie McDonald like a lot of people are leaving Donna will take a bit Deoband read and write he was as you Manjhi which is hilarious like thinking of how the bunchy are up there. Like how it is Stanwick to Julie. Julie McConnell is a very very. I don't want to say tacky. So it's work but it's very flashy and like very loud. 


[00:10:29] You know that you know all those chainmail dresses all the girls were really into the joker like they take care of the dress. 


[00:10:36] I don't think but I do. I think I'm going to look that up right now. Google Kendall Jenner Paris Hilton birthday and the best picture of the dress will pop up and like. 


[00:10:46] Everybody gave them a very direct address like the past like six months. And it was just like something like back and then we got was the Sidor like cool or like to say it was considered something that was tacky and like you know so funny to me the whole length of the early 2000s fashion that people really respond to like. Now in terms of the girls they're wearing what they're going to do like back the normal ceiling. Dress like that it was like ghetto not for like not really like something that was like respected or even seen right. 


[00:11:19] But you know like interesting funny over fun all the time. Just don't worry. 


[00:11:28] Anything that was like anything like being really that is overtly sexual. That is it might seem like too real. It's usually like that. 


[00:11:39] I think that's what you're doing. 


[00:11:42] Thanda people just like being the Salcha breathing the art of it you know my mom always always like my mom always like as long as the you she was there. Was it fun for her. Like look like us were like oh my god guys big shiny black clothes. So by like back then they were like this is like tacky but you know that's just how it works. 


[00:12:03] Stalls are buildings up to be bigger more important what they are. 


[00:12:09] Yeah. So how was that. I was I was always really into that kind of stuff. So it's like fighting now like a lot of the stuff that was all or did. All right. People like it some people will really criticize you and say it was funny because back then my 2003 like she wasn't even wearing anything custom. 


[00:12:30] I if you look mostly just like. Like anything I ever saw anywhere where you're going on a river OBALI or like Saatchi Saatchi. It was always something like Milan always something things a lot of glitter a lot of fur and you know was getting sexy. People were responding to that. 


[00:12:49] Another I think has a lot to do with wine too because like Jennifer Lopez has to dress like in a similar manner like to someone like Jennifer Lopez I think it's like that cross section like her style is always fun to me between like like little kids. For people who were more down to what she did days but like a lot of this she was very similar to the things that most girls did. It wasn't the that it because you know it wasn't mine. So not only. A black body it's like of course it's elevated it's like you can Lamport more desirable to be one of my Shaun White three or however many times you really connect what you think. 


[00:13:27] It's just music. 


[00:13:28] Like I'm not really into the fine art like that like I can appreciate something that if you look into it. But you know that really doesn't make any sense. It's just a different set of rules for that. And I'm just like kind of like always been kind of I don't see it. It just seems like really kind of elitist. 


[00:13:48] Definitely fashion is elitist too. But like art it's just very kind of like if you don't get this then you can get it you just don't know more. 


[00:13:55] Well know that's not true. I know there are so many other factors. Behind this which is why I'm this person. That's how it's like fashion. Like guess somebody is hot it's not because they're making them up. It's not it's not just making something that's like oh you're making something that's like you know all the time that's just responding with people. It's just like all these other kind of things that go into that. 


[00:14:17] So I don't know I'm not really into like fine art like that but mostly just like music. That's like really what it's like oh I. My clothes and stuff like I. Love. 


[00:14:29] Music Oh I'm like I'm fine. I love soldiers. Any kind of sculptures anything like that. I love that. Shit. That kind of shit. Don't ask me why I wasn't. I used to be scared of mannequins of this child becoming deathly here again but like naturally when I got older I just became obsessed manic and might still make shit like that I love it. Like I'm glad he hates spanking herself. She looks like the alien guys thing. I see it all the time. I want to buy. It's my favorite thing ever. So I like I guess like music and sculpture music and film. 


[00:15:06] We don't really read them but I get music and sculpture are part of the world. I don't like those whose EQ and sculpture. 


[00:15:15] Sort of have to do with fashion in a way yeah that's probably what it is. 


[00:15:20] Anything that has to do with that goes back to fashion. And to think of man again. 


[00:15:26] I keep saying that I love my game. 


[00:15:30] Yeah I was definitely afraid of magic as a child. I remember like I was walking up to my brother and I saw a mannequin going stolen or freaking out. My brother said giggling my dad oh my god I'm like trying to like touch something metal like 4 and I was crying. My dad tried to fight this guy. My brother was like well I knew what was happening. I was like crying. Because I wanted to watch. 


[00:15:54] He was like step into it. She that. And I had to get a chill out my. Oh I'm sorry Cleveland. Was. That. Bad. But I've been obsessed with that. 


[00:16:04] And then there's a boulder telling me that story of myself that is my thing. I don't even think of that. I've never heard about that like I have oh my god. That's crap. And tornadoes like seasons are like this a thousand years. I've been saying it it's like high school all over separated by the OR and like a toddler or Mama whatever it is. I don't post a lot of it. I don't know why but I guess that's what the key to victory. So. Anyway. And he just he decided like one season that he wasn't going to put Torre on actual models he stuff all the super. Mike Madigan to shot over to both of us like my favorite thing I've ever seen. 


[00:16:50] So the next question is a pretty popular while we've got at different times on the outside. Which fashion labels do you think don't get enough hype and which ones don't think. Just kind of. All right. 


[00:17:03] You know in terms of like what's going on now I just feel like I don't want to say things it just doesn't really work that way like I don't really believe in things being overrated or great. 


[00:17:15] It's 10x that that's popular. But we're sticking with what we're finding too. Like was already like like guys like you know let's going like be popular because that kind of imagery is who's already kind of popular with a certain kind of people or a certain kind of kids online. It's all like this kind of like the Gore people blog kind of tumbler of static. That's like they like second hand and like really influence right like this like you know sick sick. But you know it works in Italy and you stir it and stuff like that like it's all kind of for the fluence by that kind of thing. And that's all for those already kind of thing going on. But I guess nobody was I got to the house was we didn't even do anything like that. 


[00:17:58] So I was like already tapping into the Markley that was already there in like a space that was ongoing. There's of course people in Iceland. Well I don't mind that one of these like it's like with like. I don't really care sometimes it's cool sometimes I'm just like whatever. Like those boots they like the Manola Blahnik to do the collaboration. I see girls would not ever give a fuck about that month's anything or anything in those boots. Just because they like them and they are hot. If you go to buy them in the store he wanted to wear at your own rate. We're not going to just like the ones that were all wrong. It looks like a monster like Bellerose or like really fast. 


[00:18:35] Growing fast like photographs. No one does that. I don't know why. I'm just like really kind of like Man whatever about like. 


[00:18:44] That. I don't want to say it's a stupid question but I do think it's a stupid question. 


[00:18:50] OK I that answers the question actually. The fact that you think it's a stupid question I think people have an answer now as to who it's just like you you like what you. 


[00:18:58] I'm very much like you like which you like in your age to be like I don't wait. I don't believe in things like guilty pleasures. I just think that if you like something you like it make you feel guilty or not worry about what people think of. 


[00:19:14] I just I'm kind of like I really think so when you are talking we're talking about the Western European designer and we only started by being inspired by all. I guess we just never realized until now how similar occurring as to another designer. 


[00:19:31] That's what it is like it's like not to shave. When did my dad did. I don't like I don't like him. I'm like super. I don't I'm not like supercritical but designers movie you just feel like you know if they are really really kind of hard dogs created like a brand and then like especially like OK it's different like with when with they do they get that monster that fake them and their friends and they are just what they think the school they think is fun and they weren't aware that making friends there making clothes for their kind of people you know what I'm saying. Like when you're like in the big house it's like there's all these other things I think it's all about like in games and they want you to push the backseat and. Sell the shoe to sell and they win. So that makes her whole big business thing that makes where women wear encouraged to produce four collections a year you know resort to the way they make women's wear men's but. So a lot going on school I'm sure you don't want to do it like do a lot of weapons the ones with the like. 


[00:20:31] But look at stuff. I'm like I've seen men like images like that. They got very different things. 


[00:20:39] You know a history books like documentaries certain kind of movies. So it's like I don't know I'm just like I don't want to I'm kind of jaded that I'm not like never the guy dividing thing like shot. So I'm I just think it's keeping that slight. I don't want I don't want to rage like a intellectualising passion either. It's kind of as you say it's like pure aesthetics for me but not like I don't like I like I don't think there's a lot of meaning to it. It's just something I like it's fine and it's like away from my phone. I don't want to be I like terms. In really is other than like some like I might wear certain kind of things I want to see a certain way. I like people right. That's a very very raw. 


[00:21:21] So without much thought either in terms of like the imagery we're seeing is a lot of like a lot of like Mark does that kind of stylus That's a lot of like what is his name like Rob Simmons what rasam is right. Let's take that month. It's like basically all the well off white guys like Virgil just does like wrasse like light which is funny. But wrasslin I don't really like got problems where we don't get to war. But I love these moods where I love it all. I've always loved you just. I love that. 


[00:21:57] But anyway yeah. Yeah. Really there aren't we are all really super referential like you can always see something that someone else did and you know like disproportionate silhouette this like print. Sure. Mike I just think yesterday they were like me getting one with Scott because then my leg just like they put like a Roughriders like shirt on the runway. I thought it would just kind of just sit there and like really weird is true and just like I guess that's the that's the whole aesthetic the whole like thrift shop the static that they come and go for us to start doing something together. The only thing I thought that was weird because he just didn't give them credit for it. They are usually known for doing Mike. He's known for doing that co-operations with white stripe brands like one show. So I think the show that they've been on a lot of libraries that used to get to record. 


[00:22:51] And the Levites collaborated like you know they do all these for all these other brands. Like I think they just did a Roughriders operation even if it was just one or two shirts that were bit like butter. Interesting. But you know you could have used their work and like you know based on the way they not gotten bad press about you they still appropriated like you know black people who are hip hop. And it's a new show without like you know like you know didn't like for it. 


[00:23:17] You know it's a way to do things like respectfully and needs other people like older people and people aren't really interested in genuine cultural change just like you think it's really funny. It's always screaming a whole virgin to exchange your culture like you know there's nothing like really you're not really exchanging with so much culture if you like using something they didn't like making money off it. Not only that they get benefiting from it in any way. The whole truth strange that's kind of way. You take it literally right in the face. And that's just fashion though that they stole from each other reference each other. Like this whole other thing. Like the stylists style if I could stop them like that. You know so that's hot now like she's outspent other shows and the like a child in the streets and a break way. You know there's a bunch of other brands like some or so away from like the pros and everything sounded the same way. That's. 


[00:24:09] Right that it's a really good point that to me it's really not a cultural exchange and I am actually really against people using that term when the other party isn't benefiting at all because then it's not an exchange rate right. 


[00:24:22] No in fact. No no. They're not getting anything off that's expensive. I made a point. 


[00:24:30] About that. So with the hope that she'd be able to honor where we're were going out was. That. 


[00:24:36] I didn't think it was funny. But I you know I'm always in that I kind of stuff I'm just like I don't know if you're like familiar with these people. 


[00:24:44] I'm like I'm always like curious because it just seems like no one is ever familiar with these people or there are always surprises that these things just kind of just look a lot like way. Alex Arndt who does e.g.. I don't want to say Steve. 


[00:24:59] It's like a lot of like a kid and like everything feels like very kind of like you know I don't want to say reference but like it's like you know like antique like it's very like antique clothes or something. 


[00:25:13] It's times like that like you know some like old little shop or like a vintage store or something little thing from a. It's all very like old and delicate and like you know Christine looking at it's kind of look like a magpie that some kind of crazy old lady with all this like jury get like all these kind of patterns and furs and textures on and they acknowledge that all this stuff. So again like Samiti like that shapes that look fits with it that is like that. And the only thing I thought was weird again like the whole not getting credit or not even like doing an effort to do a collaboration collaboration with other people all the time. I thought that was weird and it was funny because I really did like their crew show like in Kyoto and Nicolaas like I'm like Japan. And instead of just like doing like all these Japanese clothing he reached up like they went to his favorite designers CONTO Yamamoto. Like to think big stuff like the 70s because like that. They didn't make a bunch of bags like a lot of Prensky stuff like that like an exchange because like you know you're you're referencing someone's work. But then like you're also like collaborating with them on it. And then now he's going to benefit from that because you know I'm assuming there was a lot of money going on this is gone it's going to make a brand like every time actually it was like they do a lot. 


[00:26:34] They did and they did a lot of clever articles but the idea that like you do like to cash more of a comic that they're really extremely popular early 2000s like the Stephen Spross practice collaborating with Richard Prince. They collaborate with a lot of artists like all the time. So that is commonplace so again I don't understand like if you run into somebody or reflections on my work I don't know why you don't just like collaborate with them and like everyone we all come up together and said you just like taking credit for something you have social media now people find out about it. This is something they've always kind of done but there's been no kind of response from anyone like you can keep earning might like saying thing. But now they have that like. So it's just like you know you might as well just do it the right way so you don't get like fucking dry on my dinner after like you know gays it might lose credibility like you know do people really take that kind of stuff like they really take it seriously. They like no no. All I remember really well was it was a balance that said something like the. Get the new guy that we think we pro-Trump or something yeah it came out it was about I was gay I was like it was. 


[00:27:43] Like nothing else. Seriously just like you said responsible things like. You know the original design to me like you know these people are like. 


[00:28:11] Rabbits. 


[00:28:14] So I feel like you bring up such a good point about responsibility and just how irresponsible it is to take from a culture and to not collaborate and give you know credit where credit is due. And I feel like a lot of people are mistaken and they're they're wrong for thinking that cultural appropriation is innocuous and a timeless which is a really popular opinion a lot of people do truly believe that it doesn't harm anyone and that it doesn't hurt anyone and that it's OK to you know take forever to make a fashion or whatever. You know I brought up Rathmines diamonds a little while ago and that kind of brings me to my next line of questioning. I watched the documentary I think it's called Dior and I it's on Netflix and it was kind of watching and so I sat down to watch with her. And this is the first time that Rabbi Simmons had done a good show. So I guess that was a big part of the documentary as I was watching us. I was watching the documentary and the show was finally happening. And there are no. Non-white models on stage. 


[00:29:23] Like not one. And so I'm a little appalled and I'm watching. 


[00:29:29] And then I catch a glimpse of like someone just like walking by and I was like oh OK there's at least you know there's one there's one nonwhite model. And then it ended up being Pat McGrath. 


[00:29:40] Like I'm not even joking there were no nonwhite models to be seen anywhere. So I guess kind of where I'm going with this is like other than the obvious what is. What are some of the biggest hurdles facing women of color and the modeling industry today. 


[00:29:58] Well you know Nancy I really like is that just being like this is kind of it just not be quite like I feel like those 100 white girls named Bianca who have a modeling contract. And you know just like the of white girls that can make them want more. It's just like you know is this is a bigger secret just like hers just like this guy it's like you know a bunch of white girls. Just be happy. And it's just so many of them. And I'm just saying. 


[00:30:47] This is nothing like the way women like money look like for example well should people like to not like it. 


[00:31:00] It's so much pressure because it just makes you want to meet them. 


[00:31:05] I have no idea that they were doing that strategically I had no idea that they did that kind of thing. 


[00:31:11] That's the thing what they didn't like it. You're you're going to get a bunch of the girls that look like that. And they also do it like you know when China became my horse you trust me. 


[00:31:24] So I guess at one point like Natasha Polly was one of the top three highest paid models in the world. And you know I guess I'm not alone. 


[00:31:32] Last night foggier preverbal and Natasha Pauley and and you know even Freiheit to a degree worked. So to me they had like very similar features. I had no idea that they were doing that as like with some kind of purpose with some kind of strategic purpose. It literally sides because of that I think in some ways and it's always I always think it's funny you like to write like like like like. Like like like they won't like any like you know Afro-Brazilian grow from a business cycle like. Rivera. Think it's great to visit with your girls and. About. Things. Like. Afro-Brazilian and Adriana Lima from the Bible which is like Jordi like. 


[00:32:29] Like like Brazil. I think she's like that too. But most of them were like oh my oh Michael's hair which doesn't make sense to me. 


[00:32:41] They're all like Jimmy Yanar from the German. 


[00:32:45] Yeah they're like from the German positions. They like to eat model clothes and they just like to. I've never been like super pretty pretty into the whole like macro thing. I've always been more like I following the black lines like like Naomi I'm like I don't really. It's just like it's kind of like whatever. You know we live like that because they don't like. Nobody stays around for like a long time. Really no one like really stays around me. They just you know there's certain Bertolucci who are not omnipresent like your god where I've not seen anywhere like recently disposable. Yeah I like this especially with like the black models like the models of color. I remember like when Lego first came out she was like get products you get. She was doing all the Spanish shows you like in front of him. And she was like Look all these shows did all these things. I don't see her anywhere anymore at all. 


[00:33:37] That's so funny you mentioned that because I was just thinking about like a little while ago because I really feel like I thought her a lot in 2015 and I don't really say much anyway. I'm on tumblr. I'm not really seeing her so much in photos or as I really feel like I saw her a lot a couple of years ago. 


[00:33:55] You did. And like you know is that really hard for them to like. Just like maintaining a career. 


[00:34:02] I mean especially with black Rommel's on round models I feel like if you're not one of the top 10 then you just kind of done with the girls who are top 10 they don't really relate. 


[00:34:12] They do like in a toilet. But then it gets the can't your career you start like you know you go from doing like your regular U.S. Vogue and you start doing like little turkey like you know they're actually just like the clergy stuff like that. So like no longevity I guess and the Curry didn't really have a lot of longevity like in the rear. That's why Naomi is like a freak and people like freaked out about her all the time. She's been working steadily with what you know top clients since like 1986. She hasn't had any grapes. She has had any breaks. 


[00:34:44] So one of the most popular questions I actually got was about my only Kimbal. People really want to know what your favorite Naomi Campbell moments. 


[00:34:51] I said I can't. That's like a whole nother show. So let's talk about it now. Like everything looked funny to me but my favorite thing which is kind of negative loop is the whole Tyra Banks do. 


[00:35:07] That always makes you say the thing that makes me laugh because I was telling her all this stuff about how she had said this to her backstage in the light show and how she had this dirty kind of blue shoe. Now she has her. And that was just Rick and I don't really remember that I don't remember. I don't remember that I'm sorry that I read it right. And I thought it was funny because all the new means I get to breathe and you don't eat the stop. You know Cindy Crawford and Christy Turlington and all those brawls. The one thing I ever heard about the other people is that she has like a perfect like photographic perfect memory that you think oh my gosh I always thought it was funny that she said you don't remember anything of that because everyone else will always go to you. 


[00:35:53] And the thing that was funny. You know to be negative but you know and you heard Tyra Banks talk. 


[00:36:01] I. Yeah. I know. Any minute. Yes. 


[00:36:05] I don't advocate bullying feel that you're teaching about how much you can get a plan like that you meet the other black girls around like minded especially. 


[00:36:20] They were like other girls and like were black. Veronica Webb was like the only one with a good cosmetic contact who was black in America the pill White was doing a lot of shows too. And just like retiring she wasn't doing much with other girls that you know like oh like like Sean Bell and Carrie and I'm like blinking for some reason. Oh little kids here are get to it later. Karen Alexander they were like a lot of other black models who were around like you know Stephanie black Stephanie Roberts is another model who gets confusing Amy a lot. 


[00:36:58] Like not in the gap as much as you like Stephanie ROBERTS It's nearly gamble but it's nice and it's funny because you think she's lighter than they are and that's you know that's fine. But anyway so. I was fighting the whole. 


[00:37:12] And she did her community service and she came out like in the final like down my lane. That was pretty funny. I think I like that was really funny but. She was doing a photo shoot for W like with Steven Klein So it was kind of like I'm doing the surveys that I'm turning into a photo shoot. You know she had said something about like she said she felt like they were talking to him or she was all that I know. I thought that was really powerful because I really have that's my whole thing I don't like when people are trying to believe me like take me down and you're like you know bring me down. I was like oh weird thing. I don't know. Anyway what else is music. Naomi is like oh you know it was amazing to see Piers Morgan in the UK may violate her privacy like when they just her. Her Like her AA meetings. 


[00:38:04] I'm like she's like why didn't you change the law over there. You can't like got people going it's like things like that. 


[00:38:12] Yeah in Kenya that wasn't already against libel I wrote a piece of shit for doing that I feel it's really horrible to this violence. 


[00:38:20] There's a lot of things I don't know. I like her needs and she's just like I don't know she's like wild but I just I'm always like astounded by her like her loyalty that she has to be able to tell all the people she works with. Again you've been working with it for ever. Like for her and she's just like really loyal. I was watching her talk on a panel recently. You know I don't she didn't say any names but it's inferred that they're doing a show on the death of Jerry Versace on on like American crime story and GSA director she respect her you asked her to play herself like and it's something that you do when you do with the case. She respected her friend and her family too much it was a 20 year anniversary just like the 20 year anniversary Giani so much since she was talking about that. 


[00:39:11] And I thought it was so like wow you really are that you're such a loyal friend that she will be involved in something like that life would be like oh look for you we are wise we think they show a big like big director at my street you want to it's like a terrier. 


[00:39:30] I was like really. 


[00:39:32] You know with them what about you and Naomi. Thank you both. I like to me anyway and this is I'm speaking of someone who does not know you I'm literally an outsider. 


[00:39:42] I'm just like the fact that you're both undefeatable. You know it feels like that's kind of the vibe that I got from both years of both yourself and Naomi Campbell. 


[00:39:52] I would say I don't think my son was undefeated. I think it is more like that like in so many Claassen or something or other like pointing out something I'm saying that's stupid for this. 


[00:40:04] I'm kind of just like you know what. OK. I understand that I'm sorry and I was like you know things like not to that in life you want to just never apologize right. That's why. People would just have to apologize right now. You say something stupid you say something stupid like made a post out like. 


[00:40:25] Stephen tried like it does like Discover magazine or her and she was like you know in a wheelchair it's like really weird. I made a point to look you know this is just like his daddy. And this is something they do is all the time. And you know we do we take them to task for that. And somebody had mentioned that maybe it wasn't really your big places for people who were disabled or whatever it was you know you write you write Oh you know I don't really consider that to be like I feel like they you know can do something wrong for steak and I apologize. 


[00:40:59] But I find it really difficult. I also like in terms of people who I talk to worry like trying to bring you down and that you know there's a lot of people who try to do that to you. 


[00:41:12] The person was the most fun day of his life. Now as friends. Say this girls hated me. She looked like she would like anything I would think he twists around and is forced to the death of me so I think it's funny. We're like now we're like best friends. You thought it would. I thought it was great. I thought so. 


[00:41:35] I mean undefeatable this is what I'm talking about. 


[00:41:38] Yes. I mean I don't look people you know. All right. Well sure. That's the funny thing. Like I just I really you just need to be on tumblr at least once I do go here. This is like what you. You know not to like life when she's in a fight. 


[00:42:00] So like no body can do this so switching gears that way you're not doing so well. What does something that seem like a therapist that you go to prison guard tour is something you do just to kind of like help them unwind. 


[00:42:16] It's like it's really likes like I don't do my own thing. I would just like to see music. I like to work out something that a lot of my friends talk to like this I would like to see a real and like me she like you know people take advantage. She did. You know. I'll talk to her g g g help me stay hungry like with talk to my friends like that. Say she's like you know she's like this or something like You know I'd go after her like. This. Or you know it's like something like. This for help or something. It's just my friends retreat. So it's just took over. So the next question we got a few variations of that on tumblr is that what this person was. 


[00:43:11] Talking about how their life was sort of felt with the trauma and the people around them had really hurt them because this question was different from the people that were around them and basically they're trying to move on from all those hurt and all of this pain and all of this trauma. And they were just wondering if you had any advice on doing that on overcoming the pain and damage that that you may experience on your. 


[00:43:38] Always think of it. Like only we only get to like live like this it's is one time that we know of. So I kind of just like to like I usually do it just to kind of just do things sometimes man like I don't even like try to like think about that. I'm not really like I don't want to say I'm like I'm not with the healthiest purply person. I kind of just push everything down and just start doing stuff. Eventually you will catch up to me but I'm like deal with it later. So I'm like kind of just. I try not to stop. I always try to keep moving. I don't like to like I don't want to dwell on stuff. Like that in terms of like interpersonal relations with people who are like family or anybody like that wasn't supportive or like me in a way. I was like really just stopped talking to them. OK. I'm famous for like I'm talking to people like I didn't talk to my my partner my grandparent's for like seven years and then they died did not say that I was just I just you know I don't really make when I feel like they think about me. That's funny when people aren't here for me or especially cook or tell you they love you I get mad in my vindictive. 


[00:44:45] I see like is a huge betrayal and all you're telling in my life is that you love me and you know I'm this and I'm back that soon as I do something that steps out of line of what is expected of me that you don't agree with then you know then it's a problem. I just I just don't fuck with the boss when I don't do that. I'm saying myself going to my DVDs to people I don't like I don't do that kind of shit. You're not trying to walk with me on a rock with me. 


[00:45:07] You got to get the fuck out of here. 


[00:45:09] But I feel that that's like 90. Are you sad that you think that that's possible. Not like the healthiest way of coping. I feel like that is probably one of the hardest things to do. 


[00:45:19] This is like something for everyone. Or you're going to do just that out of your life. Tonight depending on where you are you're like 17 you can't just talk to your parents now and say I'll. I don't. I don't know. I never know what to say. Like a hundred kids you can say you know my whole thing. 


[00:45:34] I kind of just like suffered violence dealt with it. 


[00:45:38] I don't believe that you know a great thing to tell people that you know just wait to go to college be like. You know I don't know. I feel like I'm going for options but like what helped me because I just kind of structure I try to find my people. I try to find people who were similar to me. But especially like the Internet was really helpful to all of people. I should like you know what we all do a lot. But you know you're getting old really. 


[00:45:59] And the one thing I can say that everyone was extremely close to one time I met off and we have like a real friendship. 


[00:46:09] I mean I was like best friends with this girl and some more for like three years and now we live together. OK. Who has gotten this crazy with for like a year now. 


[00:46:17] So it's like oh I have no idea as we are living together. OK. That's actually a really good story. 


[00:46:26] Yeah know like you say we'll talk. I'll talk with one strike but you think. Five six of us and we talk for hours and then we just like last year which is funny because like last year we started eating up slowly but surely you know we came here you met me here we had to do that. 


[00:46:43] I mean you're sitting around doing all these things I just mentioned you like most of like my super duper close friends. 


[00:46:50] I never thought I'd hear you say so pretty pretty but I'm so happy to hear that. I think there are some I don't. Speaking of stuff like you have a chance to do or whatever you like a few of your favorite things that you've you've been able to do these past few years. 


[00:47:06] I went to. So power and I spoke at this college. That was funny. 


[00:47:13] It was about of it almost felt like hyper visibility like we're basically like I've been training for men of color or something which I thought was funny because it was like two black crows on the planet and I have group of Jews and I can see what Easterners or something in my home Greger. 


[00:47:30] But like I was just like why is she even here because I don't even think this really pertains third killing all like that. 


[00:47:37] Like when I say that that you know what I'm saying is wrong even though I have a disability. 


[00:47:44] Oh my gosh. But she was on the panel for that. 


[00:47:46] She originally was on that panel asking about what happened it you little sweet girl that you know. I don't I feel like that I don't respond to any I don't I don't go with it. I'm trying to do right. If you're doing something right and it said something on the panel and all you will take the time to go with that. 


[00:48:08] I just feel like that's just gone like you know apology like it's kind of like what is the problem with you all this time I'm not like I didn't go to college and graduate school I'm like super like I guess formally educated like that. But you know I google everything or read everything straight you search. So you're just talking out of my. 


[00:48:27] Time but I don't know about showing how it's been all right. 


[00:48:31] Like really get a handle on things like you know violence there is a presentation and try to navigate the world like in search of like communion of such overwhelming violence that you're talking about creating a trans dating app. And like you know I don't like I don't give a fuck about that. You know I don't care about like my life. My main goal in life is not to find your partner. It's not like we're all like you know if it happens it happens. I'm sure that's late but I'm not like really. 


[00:49:00] I don't I don't know I'm just like like say a life like that number five so now they worry about running into like five that are like really being on the set that doesn't mean it's going to have sex with me. 


[00:49:13] Shine they don't because they do it it's just not a priority for me. 


[00:49:17] I don't care if they get it to happen or if it is natural. Sure. Let's party. 


[00:49:23] But no know otherwise is the spirit that Spidy is cool. 


[00:49:31] So it is simplifying but those are more stressful than. I mean I am so sorry about you still with that sounds really shitty and just really frustrating and. 


[00:49:44] You know what you said about it being such a serious topic and something that you and your community have to deal with every single day. Someone who doesn't even know what a lot of back it was. But you know it's it's extremely harmful that. On top of that it's just blatant disrespect for it. 


[00:50:02] Really does work for me. You know you're the only was always on. We were just it was like really really. So again it's pretty surreal. It just the. Melinda is like like really really like no communication with me. You're just so sweet when you talk what. You never really understand. Is this where the whole thing is. This dude in dance is down. Oh my shrink to you. Barry you think Grace which is yours. You had. No windows. No one cares. 


[00:50:48] Awards around a lot of us are a lot more close calls are from corporate rule just we just don't know about. 


[00:50:58] There should report. No one gives much. No one cares and they feel like you know people who look exactly like you I'm talking about they love you girls. Anything like that. It doesn't. Matter how far this transition. Whoa whoa whoa whoa. Passible perceived me to be still open for about because somebody wants to date the dead here. No one will care. There's no safety in that against no safety and beauty. There's just a thing. 


[00:51:30] There's also a I mean a remarkably low conviction rate right trans fat and victims like. 


[00:51:37] Like you know we all die anyway. A lot of it is like intimate partner violence. And there's a whole other conversation that no one brings down either. You know if you're like hey you're like die. 


[00:51:49] Incredible and mostly that if you're the type of knowledge that people don't ever hold on even when I was a gateway history happening like that and nothing happened and no one ever wants anything. 


[00:52:02] Nothing. It's all over. Anybody want to see this. 


[00:52:06] Crap. Never been that weird about that. 


[00:52:11] Thank you for mentioning that and especially the point about you know being mis gendered even in death. That's such an important piece of information I think for all of us to carry that. A lot of trans girls actually are they're killed. But no one actually will register those statistics or anything like that because they've been gendered at their funerals et cetera. Switching gears a little bit. Do you have a soulmate. 


[00:52:40] Vengeance. I. Think so but you know I've got to let you know. 


[00:52:50] You know I'm not like my inner city not like again. It's not like it's like something I'm sure I'll be ok with this. He said I'm sure I'll find my friends. So like my like you know like my friends like my best friend from like high school like I don't like really about her thing and I'm live without Gradus without any homebrews really no way. I don't want to be like without you I'm not in your lives. And I still like a lot of the times just like society doesn't really like they don't really encourage relations of female friendships it's too late. With competition. Yeah I always with my mom she always said she never really took her like Bima relations be kind of like seriously it was always kind of like those are always on the back burner with the. Credit card being a nice man. I always thought that was really like to do what you know what happens in the way that you talk to. They even like feeling like you're not just like you know move on and try and find other band or something. I don't know a lot of the problems I ever want to live like that and always knew that I had my friends with me I will always be ok. I always had like friends and I always. 


[00:53:59] Had other things with me like a logical purpose but I was doing some great in my room and also told me that was the definition of fun it was actually not supposed to be in Boston but I was actually always supposed to be from friend capacity and that are of course supposed to have. 


[00:54:19] Different soling at different points in your life and have more of a one at one time so I think we're kind of I think I kind of like a little more than a traditional dancer in the same vein. 


[00:54:34] Speaking of you know female friends and friendship and sisterhood. 


[00:54:40] As you know we recently interviewed Jones is the director of sisterhood a film that you wear the biggest part of really. Is there anything that you wanted to comment about the film just the production of the film that expands as a whole. 


[00:54:55] It was just like the way that it was an old school. You were just working with your friends is always interesting. It's such a different ways of doing things. I don't want to say my sympathy because I'm like so trapped in life in general. But like when you come to life I feel like I'm really kind of the baby boy and just try reading a lot. It's it was it was interesting. It's almost funny. I don't think I talk about it when it's about me. We like on set. We're still doing something like that like we have to come home props set is on your person and they don't like something. It was like it was a scene of Lovitz taking her out the dressing room in her Putois to all much of Mardi Gras beads everywhere. And I was. And I guess it was a little bit like is that like my body heat. And I was like just look stupid just take the radio off and like the girl desire to get really upset about it I was going to just wait. If it's not right it's not great making it's really hurt your feelings but it's just like it looks dumb look down on something like we have to know we have a limited time to see he won't even either like for as long as we were feeling secure like having crying because you put some beads on the mirror and someone told you about it. But you know filming was great. Like you know I was surprised. I like actually acting as a hobby or I just never felt like it. 


[00:56:51] I just never felt like my calling even got me going again. I watch a lot of movies and really engage them in lots of time especially when I was younger. I was like OK this is like biting cool. I was no reason to do it so I'm glad I did it and I'm like they do. They are trying to pursue that more about what we were interested in like doing do what you do. 


[00:57:20] We're all cool people to welcome our work from those to our power. All right a real horror story for around by direct pressure. All carols. Correct. So think about that. 


[00:57:35] I don't. I think you do something that I don't believe. That I would be getting a money in order to be like ok. Just love it. 


[00:57:46] So I actually was. I was just wondering if there was something you wanted to pursue. CHRIS All right. I'm just going to work with you know like in a perfect world I would like to be like Sorry Pedro Almodovar is like first English language. 


[00:58:08] Like a musical with like school or something. You can't say like I deal with you like a movie directed by Tom Ford. 


[00:58:18] Oh hey something like that. Did you see Tom Cotton play ball. 


[00:58:24] I watched like Single Man which I felt was like the second one was when he did the last. 


[00:58:30] It was like like he had the last one the last one I watched 20 minutes and the dark really fast angling down her back so that I can do this. 


[00:58:43] I wasn't a huge fan of that. I didn't think I don't think it was that good. 


[00:58:48] I really wanted to like fix Amy Adams hair the whole time so that thought was funny about the movie. You know it gets very important. Yeah but actually like Eva's own foes in the movie. 


[00:59:03] Oh my gosh. So I can't believe you're telling me that because that's the one thing I thought was a sure thing would be that every single piece of clothing be like you see is really scary. 


[00:59:13] She is going to be like you just like I know you he just kind of like that. So we're talking about something like straight out of the top one. 


[00:59:25] But it wasn't so I know that one of the questions that we've been getting a lot. Three times actually the question was asked three times what is your favorite characteristic about yourself. What do you love about yourself. 


[00:59:40] I think I'm hilarious and I just like my nerves. And I always like I don't want to say I like being confrontational but I like it and takes it looks at me like I'm I'm always surprised because I'm like I'm like Normally I'm just like very kind of trying to like duck. And in my mind you can see what I have to take these moments when I think I'm just very kind of like antagonistic for why I don't really work with people. 


[01:00:09] I'm always very surprised by how I react and bring things to me that are like complication I'm always ready. I'm always ready to go. They aren't really when I was younger I used to go to day camp the. And we had to be like a team meeting or something called like a group meeting and I'm. OK I guess we're going to have a meeting and team building exercises. And then everyone had a chance to speak and every single person that spoke had something negative to say about me. It was all about me. They all just went and talked about you know how I was doing this and I was in the fighting and you know as a child you'd expect a child to be really hurt you know and be there. Oh my god. I'm like you these people. I said laughing oh my god I am laughing and I went down. I went down the line and read every word and told them that the book was worth while to keep up with them and they were all the same despite my face I go out every day. I just apparently all of sudden issues with me I don't know why it was and then I know what did cause I had like sort of one of the boys mothers. And then he tried to fight me and then I told him that I was still insulting his mom laughing. I don't know. I just have a link moment but. I always think that that's not what the king of Bahrain personality was like on tumblr it seems like it is because it happens so often. 


[01:01:34] Here's the thing about it. Like normally in day to day and day to day life somebody says something crazy to respond to them like crazy. 


[01:01:43] Right. Right. So I'm. Here I'm just like minding my business. You don't like me. If somebody say something stupid to me or something. My guess the press. Responded like you know yes they think they do. But it's not really a dig at my personality. I deal with bullshit. 


[01:02:02] I say I was thinking about H-2A if I was a member of a group of people. 


[01:02:08] BONG BONG BONG BONG BONG. We want to start from scratch or something. 


[01:02:14] That kind of shit always used to be powerful. Please don't. I love the group thing. Bring it. Like come on Spring. Please back. I have one brother like me. My uncle has like. 5. 8. 5. 0 0 and with all of us together. Being alone in an argument that's like not like that. We all live it. Everyone gets a with paid on every day. Many day to day. We will all get it. With all the help you get when cursing God. That's just that's just life for me ok. Doctors. Are. Like you know. What. That's another thing. Well I guess I'm so quick witted that my mom my brother my older cousin John they were just oh he's so funny and really good with the reading. They were all like this is still Stalock way better than I here he is getting like mad. And you say something like you know me. They actually will like make fun of you and have everyone laugh at you because they are fine as a child. I was never like other kids like my siblings. My way works right. So like other people. What do you guys do. I think doing my best every day. I don't care like you can do to me that my brother my brother one time fighting over here. They were fighting the call for Beyonce and what I give this money like Beyonce was on her first solo tour like Florida's the tickets sold out and I was like really bummed out about it. 


[01:03:51] My brother made fun of me and I was like shut up. And like I need you back it up. Others say back to me when I'm like relatively small I him you know. Huge. He likes you and it might happen like this for like two weeks. So I'm just scared of being with it. 


[01:04:12] And like listen I have to fight it every day here laughter rang through from one of my coworkers that were pretty amazing and culture were like you know just just being to by your family but also just the way my cousins would do up the habit I would about them they were just able to find like the worst insecurity and I have no idea how they pass. 


[01:04:32] But they were just able to pick up on your bed once and for all I'm just like how long we're about I think we really got to just pick up on a song like point let's say goodbye. You know there's like stuff like like someone in our family like in 1996. They still like it. I agree. Yes. It is like the most ridiculous thing. Yeah it's like something a 6 year old girl is 26. You're actually just back from the chair or whatever it isn't really the only thing that's going on no. You know I did something I did something something like we're putting. Words in my mouth and don't like. A response that. I don't. 


[01:05:18] You know I feel like I feel like it's worthless to respond to people like that because they're lying in the first place right. Exactly. 


[01:05:25] So the people who are there is I'm sure there are so many girls who look up to you and you really want to be you someday and definitely see bits of themselves in you. Do you have any advice for them any wisdom that you could offer them. 


[01:05:40] I don't know compromises. All right. 


[01:05:43] Go with your instincts you know terrible things you have done this expect to find people to take your time. Like it took me a long time like really to my ways because like I said I'm 28 by become the first. Three. It was like that was floundering for a really long time. It. Was like I said I don't really know now. 


[01:06:12] We're stating what I want to do. She's just like you know just take your time. Feel like you're in competition with other people because you see them doing things you see. The best way and you're not doing everyone is like a different boy like you do his work. So what you're doing and the like you don't like Don't compare yourself to other people like you know is like they're blessings worse shape. You know you like her sure that's going to happen for you. This study also oh Bob there are worse things about your eyes. 


[01:06:50] You know you're going to have experience with something like that with a very generic advice like you know what it was. 


[01:06:58] We're all very concerned with especially what you thought about instincts are really all about because I think people really often overlook the fact that we have those feelings for on them that maybe we should trust those first time around because this is a really nice example. 


[01:07:13] Any time you dress like the first one it's usually when I go back and lay still this time. Why am I even kidding myself. Which way do you want to do it. 


[01:07:27] You know I agree with Bob. Think about what I look like where. They're all about pain. 


[01:07:37] The stuff you just just pick the first thing that comes to mind and things you see. So for now for a while what I'm wondering what things that really opened my eyes to was just talking about how the fashion industry kind of talks from. 


[01:07:55] Different cultures and also it specifically trans girls on the Internet. Can you speak about a little bit Michael culprit there on where we're seeing that happen because. 


[01:08:07] Well I play I have a model that's. And I remember one season when she's still trying to. Sing like she did my whole thing and you know it was like well it was the show. You know this this thing where they're like did you not like to use a show like that. But like they cancel on her last. And then I watched the show and what they did was didn't you her for the show. They just go for exactly that look in the show. 


[01:08:42] Can you possibly say which show this was. No. 


[01:08:48] There's another girl her name is. 


[01:08:50] She's a model. Her name is Hayes. Where she has her hair which is Megan which was just this big. I know there's a lot of other girl models just start to look like. Right. And I'm just like OK. OK. Sure. Right. That's right. Like 


[01:09:10] these they're basically just lifting the locks but not using the actual originator of the leg. 


[01:09:16] That's what they do. That's what they do. They just want they want to ask you to or they want your child. Why 


[01:09:26] it is the reason behind that if there is one other than just a complete transphobia. Well 


[01:09:33] I think it's too early to say that there are higher ups like it's your own delight. It is. But you know it's a kind of people. Alieni in life. And so I get hurt. Show. You got this week are trying I feel like that's enough. So even with the way we talk we interact and stuff all of which monoculars like it's a really weird to see plot lines on my shows. For example I was watching. The show in a way they taught me a shade between eating all this stuff and they have an actual trans person who they're being incredibly busy too. I think the thing that makes it that originate in our community I always see that kind of stuff is like Whole areas. 


[01:10:30] Now we're talking about I have a lot of people now for years. That's longer. No I do original objects no matter how old a lot of sports are constant roll up. 


[01:10:47] That's like dumb here. So what I want is the girl who has been lost. 


[01:10:55] Well look why I like my family like my mom. Campbell of course they didn't like you know old fashioned stuff like you are really getting. Interesting that Kim and Foxy Brown. You know I really just know that it is just really like fun. Interesting they will wrap around a lot of people their own way. Right. You know but she was like really big to Chloe and like your father and kid was more like you but more like Chris Versace Speedo and stuff like that. Course like Miss Ali like you know does she think she's at times like a. Huge impact to me. I like a lot of them. They don't like hype Williams like as a director like is that the girls you see used to always say really beautiful especially in the late 90s they do like to make actual girls in the video. And like you know that was all this again I responded was just lines like if you you're always want to grow up or something. It was like my goal. And of course like Mary J. Blige was on top of her being hilarious. She just is just like Jesus she's like you take spirit whatever. 


[01:12:08] And then like I say it's just like it's just like everything to me like as a person just like someone like that just to be like did you like that much. Like just like a star acting so unapologetic about legal charges. And I would just take that first. 


[01:12:24] It's like saying if you will join me in my life then the point that a person will respond to and even like I was talking about how I'm going to fashion people. She was a really funny way and kind of like knowing like names or things like knowing what time this happened this is what you want. Who was this and who was the siren. Was it a big and especially what her stuff was like I said earlier to work he said. So she kind of walked all the way. So it was over the people kind of done everything. So I just fold up one person's rear end the guy in the her I know about sewing people where we never knew about it. We thought we had some like you know all these different time designers and stylists and my artists and people who cooperated with her career. My brothers were just like us it's like a learning tool of mine is like for a game that works just fine. And the way she's done it is just like she was has even to go for it. She's been on all the TV shows you some good news of course then all the bad stuff for fragrances. That's right. That's right. That's who I want to get. You can do that. This is not different world. Still be relevant to the power season today. 


[01:13:43] So you know you've talked a lot about the creative director for several several A-bombs which of those would you say are your favorite. 


[01:13:52] Well a time for it. Not a great. Time for it. But I like that these folks are saying I don't want to say it but here he likes think like there's an idea. It works really well. Which ones that are doing this. Puji they like to think now most those folks would be out there. The Grammys always look up or down and say again we found it really sexy that we might use the word humbled. Probably like in early 2000s early 2005 when I was released top he was actually he just five. So I've always been really into it. He's done everything. I mean it's great. You know what. No I shouldn't think the whole effort to get back to the truth like. I did but you know I fantasize about getting through to you all the time all that time. And then there was this show I your fashion last season was called Section 8. I don't know who like buying that and I was like the creative director of that. Where the fuck that was that she was amazing. She was amazing. It was just like a very kind of like business fish moments or whatever like a very kind of like like working woman of like the 80s or whatever kind of moment that she's in there like Kuwait issues actual life issues and their naps. It was crazy. It was wild. It was wild. It's amazing. It was amazing. The thing any doctor will open up and say will let me know. I'm like I like any man. 


[01:15:26] But like you know it is the downside of a jolly hungry teenager isn't just now. I can't really relate to that. I like the clothes. But whatever else styling. Is. Slightly cast in this role better. But I mean like when he does she said again like dumb sexy clothes that are just like you know Kate Short. See I love it. It's weird because I'm like I don't want to say I'm conservative but I'm kind of concerned with him dress but not really. But the only thing that I do not like is when I have to like I hate my legs like I hate my legs that I hate. And then you are super duper need do really skinny. So in order for me it's like look what are you saying all my life is ridiculously short so I don't. Like stick legs like you came out of something I love but I it like being dress like I it. I. 


[01:16:20] Gives me that isn't the right thing. I can actually wear it. You don't feel like you're not feel like weird. So like I love what he does too. 


[01:16:30] Can you name some of your favorite Chancellor labyrinth. Of course I called her on her. I. Love. 


[01:16:37] Her Like that. Like to see Timothy likes who's giving me talk like the next. She was really nice she was sick and like they weren't going to let us take pictures because the only take which was the. And I was like Listen I don't think the only way. I'm like the only other black swans on in the room. That's like you know present day they give me a picture so we get my picture or I'm getting a picture of you looking at your own eyes OK. And I asked her what kind of hair she wore. They told me like you know this whole long story about her working in this company that makes it unique. So it was cool. She's cool. I like trace that she's like I'm transparent. She comes my ballroom you know she's about to walk skating. It's the really important category. Angelica Barondess she didn't make this web series but I can't remember the girl standing in the gym. I forget. But this web series and she's like you know she goes No she's like this really really really beautiful dark skinned black woman. 


[01:17:40] Always I see one of us like in public or media acts kind of like this. I took some. I don't like blaming your model her thing on me. She has the best from the walk I've ever seen in my fucking life. That no one is fucking with it. They know what I love so much. I love college. I love writing. It's funny because when I did think the magazine thing was one of the covers. And this is just like this is Jesus this guy you know Fergie told me something like time in my name was on the cover and get. 


[01:18:18] My elbows on the table to get all the girls to actually have a nice cover. You know I've been like I've been falling on my leg a little stalker seems like my face was I got things like 6 or 7 or something like that but I was like a fool but I'm the same age she was. That's fine. But I love her I love her I love her. She gets so much shit like one line like people reading comics carry her or it makes me cringe. Teachers say they always make me with her and the like really the spare change is just such a fight for her sentence. What are some other things I couldn't do that. Especially like I'm smart. I could not like put myself out there the way she does. Second I don't know how old your heart is. I really have to get there. You know I respect all these women that think the whole thing are quite big respect when everyone dies. Oh my. You know Horie of course. And Giuliana I really don't feel like a lot like a lot. Like I like I like I love her like a lot. She's like you know I. Thought I would follow the audience. I don't know what the check that she still seeks is to follow me. She's great fun and cool. I remember like in December she asked me to like host something just to see the others in New York I was like no in New York City. Oh I'm sorry can't do that. 


[01:19:35] But you know I love you and they didn't give me any money or you gave them you know they're looking out you know just actually you know a lot of things is just like sitting next to them you can't really do anything. But she's like she's legitimately takes on you and this is you know a lot of bitches act like they're like really different. 


[01:19:53] She's a real fucking weirdo and I really appreciate the actually thinking of me like one of the questions is actually like you live in San Francisco right now correct. Yes. Do you plan on moving at any anytime in the future. Do you want to move to someplace new. 


[01:20:08] Like I don't live in. I don't live in homes. It's 30 minutes away. Thank you very much. I just want what's fair. I know you like it because you might as well pull the trigger. Exactly. It's so. 


[01:20:33] It's crazy over that. My friend who I was and in San Francisco he works way from Xmarks and he at one point was like living with six or seven other people and his rent was still a double or triple life and I can't really remember whether it's really really expensive. I'm assuming that that's because of the startups that like the gentrification and just the fact that it's Silicon Valley I don't think so I was the victim here. If you're like all the rest of your. 


[01:21:02] Family comes first. So like the first eight years of my life really wish it was like live somewhere or that you know I'm speaking like a gentleman but I met John to see my old neighborhood and it was just like really. Really great. What Here was like that ramp or something on the House it's really sort of always really frustrating. 


[01:21:35] We're talking about you know about your about your home more than anyone else. 


[01:21:42] You'd have to OK we're going to church my grandmother and all these like white people outside waving. What the hell are you doing here. 


[01:21:54] That's all it works. 


[01:21:56] Oh my gosh. I like to work with that. 


[01:22:01] And when I was like literally peak life experience here and it was like so fucking funny because they were saying you know like we are all like you talk to people and am I going or will you come out here we're going to do this we're going to do that I'm going to have this thing that you're like yeah yeah sure sure that's that's never going to happen that you know fact like opera is like I did like this show like photo series my friend Elizabeth like for a sose make it. What was that like. It's like we shot everything in August listen I don't remember all that. 


[01:22:40] And I feel like it was like it was last summer. Yeah right in August I guess. 


[01:22:46] And then we had like on the party was supposed to be in September moving back to October. I said OK whatever. And like it was like towards the end of October birthdays and early November the furniture it was like New York for like a week. And they paid for the flight hotel the readings and it was actually a free trip like we had like them this big launch party like in the galleries was this huge big deal. And as we were getting on the plane I didn't want to go to. I did the first eight planes I took am traveling. Yeah. It's like tedious shit ever. TSA having like panic attacks probably using all my stuff. OK. Like a lot of my friends make up on that so we always get like this done it's never like I was there were like you girls are wearing make up and like you start wearing your drugstore. It was like instantly like six foundation. Yeah. These are pilots. They use it. You get all these expensive product something like freaking out. I'm going to lose like all this crap that like all my hate growth. And I kind of like this here we have all these weeks looking like really expensive. I'm like oh my gosh like this the only thing that. 


[01:24:01] Matters about this here is who's this machine. But again I think it's not that I don't like Apple flying. Like what does that mean I get from the public of that look like crazy Turbo I don't know it's going to be. 


[01:24:16] I like it. It's just like a lot. They didn't even want to go in my neighborhood for my mom but my mom is like my mom's like really weird. We're like I'm free to speak but she like to think she's a radio operator. You have to get huge argument would you. OUTFRONT now the L.A. Times. Thanks so much. I don't want to go anymore. I I do is blah blah blah blah. 


[01:24:35] So I'm like getting on like literally before I get on the plane not a text message from my party. And I wanted to shoot the next new like the next morning. Oh my God. So it wasn't something I had time before or even knew that was going to happen. Like she mentioned she was a big candy like shit like Mbaye. 


[01:24:55] We both do like a photo shoot like in the cheap for like go there for whatever reason that fell through and she's like OK that's just not like you know my whole model is that is not my blessing this is not something I get to do love you I'll be doing something else let's it's funny but I'm actually thinking about anything. OK whatever. So like I got that and she sent me the thing I said OK. I think you forgive me right. Not only reason going to play but like a reason to give a reason to like actually like you know wake up in the morning and think because like you know Nesmy new you know again fashion for honkies like that's just like my cake and my thing. They just do. They do all the really cool stuff. Another really interesting stuff. 


[01:25:38] Like they work with like I think the design for whatever public image in Paris with all those collages and the screen is part of the study. They just look amazing work. You know what you have people who want to work with you. I always fantasize about that although the model. Shows where to who and where and what I would do anything that was like they were like on the top my lips so funny because I coffee shop with them like two or three times that year. 


[01:26:04] Like always there are a lot of stuff. You know we are like your friends up you're happy for them. I never have been impressed by anything that she ever did or anybody she worked with until she like what with the new. 


[01:26:17] I want to see her and let me know like I got to leave now. So like for Herb and like just mad for me. I want to that. I wanted to make it so funny. She actually texted me this. But she was like oh yeah we're going to do this art. Ok cool. So I get on the plane. 


[01:26:35] Horrible right of course the hotel of course like I didn't I made you my make up because we didn't make right. I think the computer shop. 


[01:26:46] How we were like I on set. OK whatever. So I call my home girl who lives in Queens and I will say that you got to come in and take it back now. Like six. I get up in the morning just like why am I doing that. And I'm like why not. Do you think it's my fucking birthday. You. 


[01:27:02] Getting up at 7 o'clock and wearing your make up for it live it was like losing day day. Just take the biggest load of my life over to my make up and give it back to you again. Megan Galligan this big argument this is the first time you ever had a disagreement in life. 


[01:27:20] DEAR FRIEND She's also New Yorkers and she's an amazing player and she was able to find him and her boyfriend came over like it like that morning. I was doing my hair because then the same time. And I can keep your feet at the top that thing think is just like Scorpio. Scorpio You know like 2007 when Courtney was Chloe. Anyway I separate that from our outpost in the box. And I get downstairs and I can go into the uber uber tech can't blame on me. 


[01:27:50] OK. Don't hide too late. 


[01:27:52] We had to get me down there in button topic I can live in midtown making the little guy in traffic and it would be like it's so stressful when you realize that you can't think about all always happens when you like the later place and things turn canceling and I'm driving like I was just like what the fact is like tripping out but then we got there and of course they did but they're like whatever. 


[01:28:22] And my gosh you are so close. Like you like a rock close to rock up close. You are very close to where. You are. Oh no we are close. Mark sent over some photos of my mom taking a walk. I like doing a family like my first day any work in the morning. It was like the most to lose but I'm like no one does. This isn't happening. When I got the news nobody else do it it was let's do them on the collection one the one with the dread thing. 


[01:28:52] Every room was like freaking out about all this is like OK like you know I was a girl in the grocery when it did me good. I was reading this literally yesterday when I came down on my breast in the collection. 


[01:29:05] Oh my gosh this is hilarious. If I knew how Donna's a sense of humor but being so Don and OK so this close here but I know I'm not getting in any of this. I just knew that wasn't going to happen. So I was like OK. And I saw that movie and I was like dad you know like I love them i. Love them and like you know. So I go in the bathroom like I barely got out. I think it's true that this is like I got rather close. This is I'm going to sell down myself and it is going to arrive in time and it's something that will work and I die because they like like platform like you like the way things are. And people think this round about these shoes don't like it. So how does it go. So I think this is the shoes. Yeah it doesn't matter. OK. That's whatever. So the shoes fit and I go get the clothes. It was like a shirt like this little dress thing of the view that you and I go in the bathroom. I try to put the shirt on and it was just like it. I ripped the shirt and pretty sharp my example. I ripped the shirt. And I did like nothing happened. I just took a sharp real smooth and for some reason across this building I was a girl and sample size. I'm getting on with it. So I'm like I put the dress on the shoes in. The. Garden. So good blah blah blah blah blah. 


[01:30:35] It just took me a little time again to stand up and. Dance. And unprofessional. I really do. There's no personal cheating. It's not that. Guys like me go over to you. 


[01:30:50] And get shooting was really fun and just relax. It was just it was just it was just like some real professional chef but no shame to anybody ever ever work with fake. I was like that was like something real like OK. But this is what you do how you do it. And like it was so funny going OK. It wasn't even like this was like my first real first ever with like the 2000 heartburn. I actually like one close example. And like I like this like that was my first time actually even in person too you know. Yes I have like men talking to her online. It seems like for five years now like the first time. And this is the situation. It was just so funny. This is like the kind of stuff people always talk about one line as a joke and then actually get together was like it was like the wildest thing and it was like a group shoot look for. The girl. They all came I like calling romance and was like it was like and then like later on that night a big party for like my. Photo exhibit with all these misdeeds. Let's face it everywhere and about being on TV it was like it was like a dream. 


[01:32:01] It really does sound like a fairy tale. I'm so glad you got on that plane. 


[01:32:05] Yeah because that was my ass at home big deal. 


[01:32:13] That's just I'm going gosh that even a better story than I could have imagined. I figured that it must have been a good experience but it was vile. 


[01:32:19] It was wild. It was pretty wild. 


[01:32:22] Just one last final question. What kind of impression could everyone what kind of impression would you want to leave while people. 


[01:32:36] You. 


[01:32:37] Oh I'm really happy. I don't know. I just want people to like the. This is someone who really didn't compromise who really was the Salvos and really was just kind of like you know having fun doing it. 


[01:32:51] You know it was kind of just like really like you know are so fake just nine compromising just completely forceful and unapologetic. That's perfect. That's what I want. Well. We're. 


[01:33:08] Unapologetic. I love that so much.